Animals

And I'd prefer it, if people like you had the common decency to be ashamed of yoursleves. How would you like it if your children were slaughtered after they had been "on their own" for months? You think thats fine? Shame on you.

Suggest you watch documentary, "FOOD, INC."  to learn exactly where your food comes from.  And it is easy to get a job as a killer in a slaughter house, so that would satisfy your preference to kill the animals yourself.

Kristen, it's hard for me to take your concern for animals even halfway seriously when you continue referring to them as "it," when you refuse to respect them enough even to acknowledge their individuality and aliveness.

And thanks but no thanks for your attempted correction. When the lamb is pulled away from his or her mother wasn't relevant (or specified) -- the separation of mother and child, the separation that animal ag is built on, is the point here. And being weaned doesn't make the lamb an adult. Toddler or preschool age is still the appropriate comparison.

Lambs are slaughtered between the ages of 6-8 months, six months being the most common for commercial production.

At six months of age, a lamb is behaviorally juvenile. They still nurse off of their mother and are still learning new behaviors from their kin.

At the sanctuary where I work, we had the fortune of watching a ewe give birth to her lamb (rescued from a cruelty case) and raise him. He continued to nurse off of her far past the traditional weaning age, far past six months. And he learned a lot from her far past the age of weaning.

So yes it is true that some breeds of sheep are sexually mature at six months, and yes it's true they aren't "toddlers, per se. But they are still young animals - they act young, are physically immature and behaviorally so as well. They're still baby/young animals.

I say "it" because we're talking about a hypothetical animal that could be either gender, not a specific he or she, although gendered pronouns grate on me in general. I always prefer the technically incorrect "their" to the cumbersome "his or her"... but that's a topic for another blog!

But if your measure of whether or not I am concerned with animal welfare boils down to grammar...

Kristen, do you say "it" when you are not sure of another human being's gender?

If not, perhaps you should extend the same courtesy to other sentient, emotional nonhumans.

If so, then at least you are consistent.

I do when it's a kid.

Actually my wife works with women who grew up in the Philippines and that is exactly what they had to do one year when they had no food. Judge all you want but it's easy to have a cause, it's another to be starving and have to make the choice to do what you have to to survive.

For the record I do believe that we have lost the appreciation for the food we eat.  The Native American traditions of offering prayers of thanks to the animal for the sustenance his body provides are closer to what I believe ones mindset should be. 

Seth,

We're certainly not talking about situations in which humans need to eat animals to survive. We're talking about Western societies, where we have a plethora of choices that don't involve intentional and unnecessary cruelty/killing.

Seth, in the Philippines the dog market is a thriving place of constant cruelty and not just a one year anomaly.  http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/dog-meat-26.html  This link will show a photo of a dog, muzzled, front legs dislocated and tied behind its back so that it can't escape, as it awaits death.  In 1998 the dog meat trade was made illegal there and yet it goes on with an estimated 500,000 dogs being tortured and slaughtered each year. 

I think more to the point, humanity has lost its appreciation for compassion, mercy and the "Golden Rule - do unto others as you would have done unto you".

We noticed the same thing Elaine.  This post did not seem like Stephanie's writing.  We have not been on Change.org for many months and to see her writing in this style was exactly as you put it: refreshing, honest, straight-forward, elicit(ing) an emotional reaction.

That's MISTER Green Hair to you, bub!

Oh Dear, so your name is Mr. Kristen? Your parents sure had a good sense of humor, hon!

Wow, do you even listen to yourself Nancy?  "I don't like what you do or say so I'm going to make fun of something totally unrelated about you that you had no control over!"  You know, I don't like what you have to say either, so I think I'm going to make fun of the lame color of your eyes, because they're a hilariously nasty shade.

And you sure are compassionate, wanting to kill Kristen, really shows how much you value life.  Take one life to save another, because it's the easiest option?

Oh dear, perhaps I *do* need to have that gendered pronoun discussion here after all...

That Nancy is speaking out of a rising frustration and verbalizes it is one thing, but you and I know that if the opportunity arose, she wouldn't follow through.  On the other hand, Mr. Kristen Ridley has regularly commented on his willingness to kill and eat any defenceless creature that his hungry gaze might afix itself on.  Someone once said that being a veg'n is like living in a society filled with murderers and rapists, everyone goes along with it and no one will listen to you tell them that it is wrong to do that to others.  That is exactly how we feel when we have to face this horror on a day to day basis.  You see a pork chop and we see a tiny piglet dangling from a monsters hand as its testicles are ripped out of its body.  Ponder that for a moment Cole (I'm assuming you are a male) and think what it would feel like if those were your testicles in that monsters hands.  Pleasant thought isn't it?

Actually I'm starting to hear from a lot of farmers that they aren't

Sorry about that.

...that they aren't castrating their young boars because they've found that at the age most pigs are slaughtered, you don't yet get that "boar taint" taste on the meat, so it's unnecessary. And unnecessary stress is bad for the both the pig and the one eating it (stressed animals have been consistently shown to be tougher and less tasty).

See, the problem here is that you see a monster and I see a farmer trying to feed their family.  Most farmers could use a lot of education on raising their animals more humanely, but that doesn't make them monsters. Even the horrible abuses you see in factory farms, those are most perpetrated by poor, often immigrant workers (who I would hesitate to call "farmers") forced by necessity to do a job that should require care and caution but instead must be done as fast as possible... And no matter who you are, even if you think what is happening to the animals is horrible, if you are economically forced into doing that job every day, you either become desensitized to it or you'd go insane (or quit your job and you and your family would probably starve).  The workers are incredibly abused by the industrial ag system, too (and that's true whether they're stunning cattle or picking fruit).

And no, I don't feel threatened by some vegan on the internet, (or anyone on the internet), but as a gay person, I know all too well where violent language eventaully leads...

Oh, and I'm a woman. I prefer Mr. as a title, but I'll take any pronoun you feel like throwing at me!

Hi Sean - been offline for the holidays... I'm far from amazing!! Just had my 63rd birthday, and have been called a kook more than amazing, I assure you! ...but thank you for the compliment. I'm glad that you agree with my thoughts and feelings re animal rights! My husband & I have children who are not vegetarians and/or vegans. One of our daughters is coming close to embracing a life of being a vegetarian. I'm hoping she carries though!!

Hoping you and yours had a lovely Thanksgiving - surrounded by loved ones and friends..........Nancy